[jessep28]

Originally Posted by tbakergobuck

Same here but ET4G... I had 60681

Same here - went from 60681 to 60683

[sfhub]

Originally Posted by nmherron

Am I reading this correctly? Because it looks like the new PRL has a lot more EV roaming, especially on Verizon. Am I nuts? Can I start celebrating?

I think you are reading it wrong.

Look at the diffs from 60681 and search for Verizon and Alltel:
http://www.batonrougebroadband.info/...0681_60683.txt

There was a minor change in 1x scan in Birmingham, AL for Verizon.

Most of the other diffs were generated by a change in channel scan for Cellsouth, dragging Alltel into the diff.

Then there are a bunch of Verizon and Alltel removals.

Not a single Verizon or Alltel add.

[w7excursion]

Don't think I saw my prl listed. I assume I have lte roaming on my Wimax phone then.

[tbakergobuck]

Originally Posted by jessep28

Same here - went from 60681 to 60683

Is your phone doing anything different? I flashed Syndicated Ice Rom around the same time I updated my PRL and my signal strength and 3G speeds are noticeable faster. I didn't think the PRL could improve those things? I know changing the modem can but I didn't do that. Maybe a combination of things. I'm not complaining just trying to figure it out. lol

[nmherron]

I live in Geography Area 14. And when I go down to Verizon in my area (on 60681 and 60683) and look at Santa Fe and Albuquerque zones, it says EV Scan. However, when I roam in my Area, it's always 1X. So, most likely I must be roaming on another network, and Verizon is a lower priority roam for me.

I know it's not Cricket. Cricket doesn't have service outside of Sprint's coverage here in Northern New Mexico. And they only have urban service. Most Cricket users I know are roaming on Sprint.

I suppose it could be Alltel. I live right on the cusp between where part of Alltel went to AT&T and part went to Verizon. My friends who had Alltel and live in the AT&T zone now only get 1x service. AT&T took down the old EVDO network in our area when they took over Alltel in our area. And the HSPA in the area has now been expanded. Only 1x left for the old Alltel customers on CDMA here. And presumably, this is what's happening to me. I'm roaming on this 1x only Alltel network that is so pervasive in my area.

The Alltel customers who live in the Verizon zone in my area lost their 3G service, but it came back after they did a PRL update. I think it's because Verizon has already reclassified their Alltel towers in our area to be Verizon. So my device no longer roams on the old Alltel towers that are now with Verizon because it is such a low priority on my PRL. That's my hypothesis anyway.

Is there any way to tell which carrier you are on when roaming?

[sfhub]

Originally Posted by nmherron

I live in Geography Area 14. And when I go down to Verizon in my area (on 60681 and 60683) and look at Santa Fe and Albuquerque zones, it says EV Scan. However, when I roam in my Area, it's always 1X. So, most likely I must be roaming on another network, and Verizon is a lower priority roam for me.

This is what it says in the 60683 PRL

In all Abuquerque areas listed, you only have 1x data roaming, on Cricket, Alltel, and Verizon.

SID: 6249 - Cricket Communications - ALBUQUERQUE 02 NM - Priority: Same - Roaming Ind: Domestic
1X Scan: PCS/925 PCS/725 PCS/825 PCS/850 PCS/950 PCS/1025 PCS/1050 PCS/1075 PCS/1100 PCS/1125 PCS/1175
EV Scan: Sprint - 0084:0AC0(Same) - PCS/325 PCS/375 PCS/475 PCS/150 PCS/225 PCS/125 PCS/625 PCS/650 PCS/75

SID: 79 - Alltel - ALBUQUERQUE NM - Priority: Same - Roaming Ind: Domestic
1X Scan: CLR/Both CLR/Both
EV Scan: Sprint - 0084:0AC0(Same) - PCS/325 PCS/375 PCS/475 PCS/150 PCS/225 PCS/125 PCS/625 PCS/650 PCS/75

SID: 110 - Verizon Wireless - ALBUQUERQUE NM - Priority: Same - Roaming Ind: Domestic
1X Scan: CLR/Both CLR/Both
EV Scan: Sprint - 0084:0AC0(Same) - PCS/325 PCS/375 PCS/475 PCS/150 PCS/225 PCS/125 PCS/625 PCS/650 PCS/75

The PRL entries here are deceptive. What they specify (the bolded entries) is that you roam on 1x with the listed carriers, but the EV scan is still looking for Sprint signal. So you could theoretically be 1x roaming on Verizon (calls and text) but have EV data from Sprint.

Now in the more likely case that the whole reason you are roaming in the first place is you don't have Sprint signal, those PRL entries are effectively 1x roaming only with Cricket, Alltel, and Verizon, in that order. Data is also 1x with those carriers because the Sprint EV scan comes up empty.

You can tell who you are roaming with by looking in the ##DEBUG# menu at "1x Engineering" and "EVDO Engineering" You can see the SIDs and Sector IDs (depending on phone) as well as the channels being scanned.

When you have 3G roaming with Alltel/Verizon, it looks something like this:

SID: 79 - Alltel - ALBUQUERQUE NM - Priority: Same - Roaming Ind: Domestic
1X Scan: CLR/Both CLR/Both
EV Scan: Alltel(VZW) - 0086:5900(More) - CLR/201 CLR/73 CLR/199 CLR/468 CLR/589 CLR/597 PCS/175 CLR/466 CLR/594 CLR/630 CLR/770 PCS/775 CLR/119 CLR/157 CLR/160 PCS/75 PCS/225 CLR/510 PCS/975 PCS/1025
EV Scan: Verizon Wireless - 0080:0580(More) - CLR/37 CLR/73 CLR/78 CLR/466 CLR/548 CLR/589 CLR/630 PCS/770 PCS/636 PCS/275 PCS/325 PCS/350 PCS/375 PCS/675 PCS/725 PCS/750 PCS/775 PCS/875 PCS/1025 PCS/1075 PCS/1175

Also I think you already mentioned (as an Evo user) you know that on the stock ROM, sprint made the 3G and 1X indicators essentially the same. The phone's radio still tells the ROM when it switches from 1x to 3G, but the ROM was modified to essentially ignore that change always display the 3G indicator, even if you roaming with 1x.

[nmherron]

Awesome! I have been mis-reading these things for a long time. Thanks!!!

[jessep28]

Originally Posted by tbakergobuck

Is your phone doing anything different? I flashed Syndicated Ice Rom around the same time I updated my PRL and my signal strength and 3G speeds are noticeable faster. I didn't think the PRL could improve those things? I know changing the modem can but I didn't do that. Maybe a combination of things. I'm not complaining just trying to figure it out. lol

My phone has been flaky signal wise since day one.

[digiblur]

Originally Posted by nmherron

Awesome! I have been mis-reading these things for a long time. Thanks!!!

Thanks sfhub for explaining it for me.

If you guys have a better way to format this let me know. I haven't had time to get around to adding color to these things to make them easier to read.

Basically each SID has one 1X scan record. But it can have as many EV records tied to it as it wants. You can see some sids with 3 or 4 records tied to them. You can also have multiple 1x records with the same sid in one more geography groups. These are usually done for different scans so they can apply different priorities to say cellular or pcs bands. It can make your eyes spin. The diff engine in the app drives insane as it is

Now for the Sprint EV scans on 1x roaming records.. it looks it was their attempt to stop people from force roaming in a sprint area and running up roaming bills. But it never worked for me. I never bothered to try to fix their screwup.

[digiblur]

Originally Posted by tbakergobuck

Is your phone doing anything different? I flashed Syndicated Ice Rom around the same time I updated my PRL and my signal strength and 3G speeds are noticeable faster. I didn't think the PRL could improve those things? I know changing the modem can but I didn't do that. Maybe a combination of things. I'm not complaining just trying to figure it out. lol

About the only time you would see a prl fix your signal would be if it added 800mhz scans to your device...and there was a 800mhz smr tower in your area along with a device that supported it.

A prl will not give you better sprint pcs band signal or speed. Sprint has had their scans setup on their licenses in their prls for quite some time now.

[nmherron]

Originally Posted by digiblur

Thanks sfhub for explaining it for me.

If you guys have a better way to format this let me know. I haven't had time to get around to adding color to these things to make them easier to read.

Basically each SID has one 1X scan record. But it can have as many EV records tied to it as it wants. You can see some sids with 3 or 4 records tied to them. You can also have multiple 1x records with the same sid in one more geography groups. These are usually done for different scans so they can apply different priorities to say cellular or pcs bands. It can make your eyes spin. The diff engine in the app drives insane as it is

Now for the Sprint EV scans on 1x roaming records.. it looks it was their attempt to stop people from force roaming in a sprint area and running up roaming bills. But it never worked for me. I never bothered to try to fix their screwup.

My error in reading them in the past is if I saw EV Scan at all under each listing, I thought it was scanning EV on that carrier. I didn't really grasp that it was saying Sprint afterward. Just wasn't even really sure what I was even looking at. But I appreciate the info you provide and the clarifications I've received.

[digiblur]

Let me try to break it down. I don't claim to know everything about the PRL layout, but I do know a good bit from reading various whitepapers and such on them...and a ton of reverse engineering. First a few fundamentals.

A PRL is broken down into Geographic areas. Sprint puts the various SID/NID combination grouped together in these. Once your phone locks onto a SID in one GEO it will stick to searching for SIDs in that same GEO before it goes out looking in other GEOs. This gives your phone a quicker response of finding another SID when it needs to. If you have ever noticed it takes a bit to find signal after turning your phone on after a airplane trip across the states, this is your phone searching the GEO from your previous location, then it gives up and starts searching the other GEOs. The SID/NID combinations in the GEO have their various priorities of Same, More, etc. A SID is regional ID of the wireless system. A NID is smaller network inside the SID. For instance a SID that has two large metro areas in them might have a NID of 40 for one town an 41 for another. It would be listed as 4622/40 and 4622/41. If Sprint needs to apply different rules to either NID it will put a record for each. Otherwise it will put 65535 for the NID meaning all NIDs for that SID. In my analysis reports I suppress the NID if it is 65535. Got it? Geo area, SID, then NID.

Each record in a PRL is a 1X record. This is back from the days when we didn't have EVDO. When EVDO came along, they kinda tacked it on as another record. The 1X record has an association pointer that tells it which EVDO record(s) to use. This is how you can have one 1X record that has 4 or 5 EVDO records associated with it. Also the same EVDO record can be associated with multiple 1X records to save space. One additional piece that EVDO records have are subnets. They don't use SIDs. You will see these in the analysis as the hex address looking codes. The subnets are very important. If for instance the PRL says to scan 325, 475, and 50 with a subnet of 0084:0AC0 and your phone finds an EV signal at 50 with a subnet of 0086:5900 it will not connect to the incorrect EV subnet. This prevents your phone from using the wrong EVDO provider.

Next piece we have are acquisition records, or ACQ records. These are records that simple have the list of channels. The EVDO records and 1X records each have one pointer that says which ACQ record to use. For instance, 4622 might have an ACQ record number of 40 and 4154 might also have the 40. These SIDs would get the exact same channel scans. The ACQ records are generally set up for the licenses they have in each SID. But of course the licenses can change from county to county. So sometimes the phone will scan channels that Sprint is not licensed for. It's no big deal, since your phone will not find the Sprint SID on those channels anyways. Once it finds a pilot channel from the tower, the tower takes over telling your phone which channels to use anyways.

So let's break down the analysis now that I attempted to make somewhat human readable.

SID: 5660 - Cellular South - Jackson MS - Priority: Same - Roaming Indomestic

Scan for SID 5660. I have a cross lookup of the Carrier and area. If you see some that are incorrect, let me know and I will change them. Next is the priority. In this case it is Same, as in same priority as the next record. Next is the roaming indicator. Sprint uses 3 types. Native(non-roaming for their own network and strategic roaming partners), Roaming, and International Roaming.

Next line:
1X Scan: PCS/325 PCS/425 PCS/825 PCS/850 PCS/925

Lists the various channels to scan for signal. PCS and CLR designate what band the channel is in. You will also sometimes see CLR/Both (Cellular both A and B side), PCS/F (F Block PCS), etc. Sprint tries to keep it to specific channels for quicker signal acquisition.

Next line(s):
EV Scan: Sprint - 0084:0AC0(Same) - PCS/75 PCS/175 PCS/225 PCS/250 PCS/325 PCS/725 PCS/475
EV Scan: CellSouth - 0081:F300(More) - CLR/589 PCS/375 PCS/975 PCS/875 PCS/475
EV Scan: Alltel(VZW) - 0086:5900(Same) - CLR/201 CLR/73 CLR/199 CLR/468 CLR/589 CLR/597 PCS/175 CLR/466 CLR/594 CLR/630 CLR/770

This example it will look for Sprint's subnet, then CellSouth, then Alltel's old subnet. Instead of just displaying the subnet I do a lookup in a table I created that gives you the carrier name of the subnet. It makes it easier to read. Each EV scan also has the Same/More priority flags. Then of course the channels to scan.

In my comparison log it is pretty close to this, but I list the before and after of what it changed from and changed to. I also list and EVDO enabled indicator to make it a bit easier to read when a SID adds or removes the EVDO records associated to it. I've seen in the past where Sprint associates an EV channel but forgets to enable the association.

One thing to note in the comparison logs, if you see something removed that doesn't look right. Do not get alarmed. Sometimes Sprint has a SID listed multiple times in a PRL for one reason or another. I've seen them clean up these duplicated SIDs. Just check the full analysis to see your full picture for your area.

Hopefully I didn't bore you on the whole PRL thing and I was able to explain what you needed. Now taking all this into account, you can easily see how the claims of getting better speeds, better signal, etc from a PRL upgrade are generally false. The only rare cases are when you are dealing with strategic roaming partners. Or in the future dealing with the 800SMR band when it gets added and up and running.

And one more interesting one I forgot:
SID: 1522/1 - CAROLINA WEST WIRELESS - NORTH CAROLINA 03 ASHE - Priority: Same - Roaming Ind:Native
1X Scan: PCS/C
EV Scan: Carolina West - 0081:7C80(More) - CLR/468 PCS/1150

This is for SID 1522 NID 1. Your phone will use Carolina West's 1X and EV network where Sprint is not available. Your phone will not display any roaming indicator. It will look like you are on Sprint's own network.

[4ringsnbr]

Sprint is now pushing PRL updates. Verizon has done it for years, but I've never seen Sprint push a PRL to your phone with no intervention. Normally you have to update PRL or do a data service update manually to pull a PRL. Sometime this weekend, my phone was updated from 60681 to 60683 without me doing anything to the phone.

[sfhub]

Usually they push the PRL upon provisioning your phone, but they've had the capability to push PRLs separately for a while. They used to tag my old Samsung A500 flipphone for a PRL update and a few minutes later it would update the PRL.

Maybe you are saying they've had the capability but never chose to push them out en-masse. That is probably the case.

[digiblur]

Originally Posted by sfhub

Usually they push the PRL upon provisioning your phone, but they've had the capability to push PRLs separately for a while. They used to tag my old Samsung A500 flipphone for a PRL update and a few minutes later it would update the PRL.

Maybe you are saying they've had the capability but never chose to push them out en-masse. That is probably the case.

I also remember several older phones updating the prl by themselves. Old Mogul in 2007 and a sanyo flip phone would update itself. I would put a different prl on and it would update by itself.