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Old 03-16-2012, 01:25 AM   #61
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Watching a movie on Netflix (besides being ridiculous on a tiny phone screen) is HEAVY usage-- you're talking 500 MB or more in a 2 hour period. The average smartphone user in the U.S. consumes about 700 MB per month according to Nielsen and other surveys. Over 1 GB in a month is heavy usage! I do admit-- I did hit 1.4 GB one month, but I don't see how on earth anyone with a phone that doesn't tether or use the wifi hotspot can burn more than 2-3 GB in a month on a phone... at least nobody with a day job that keeps them busy...
Try streaming music while working out an hour 4 or 5 times a week. You will break 2GB without a sweat, ok yes a sweat from the workout. Ad to that, PocketCast downloads 5 podcasts a week, thats about 250MB a week, I like listening to them on the drive home from work. Add push mail from 4 different email accounts. Now throw in your browsing and Maps. It does add up quick, especially when wifi isn't available at work and you can't trust open wifis. Even https can be bypassed if you connect to a rogue wifi.
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Old 03-16-2012, 08:55 AM   #62
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Try streaming music while working out an hour 4 or 5 times a week. You will break 2GB without a sweat, ok yes a sweat from the workout. Ad to that, PocketCast downloads 5 podcasts a week, thats about 250MB a week, I like listening to them on the drive home from work. Add push mail from 4 different email accounts. Now throw in your browsing and Maps. It does add up quick, especially when wifi isn't available at work and you can't trust open wifis. Even https can be bypassed if you connect to a rogue wifi.
Most gyms in my area have wifi so I wouldnt accumulate data from that. I would also download the podcasts at home with my wifi to eliminate that usage. I do check my emails and facebook often. Also browse the net from time to time. Overall with the use of wifi I do not come close to 2GB a month. I think alot of people with Sprint use more data than the norm because they can. Why bother getting on the wifi at the gym or why download the podcasts at home or when on wifi when you can just do it with the network. And this is why I believe Sprint will go to the tier options in the future. When people have unlimited data they will use more cause they can.
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Old 03-16-2012, 10:54 PM   #63
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It's not about the 300mb, it's about being deceptive, it's about not even attempting to help their customers keep track of the roaming data, it's about being too lazy to fix the website and the bills to report actual numbers instead of trying to live up to the whole "truly unlimited" hype Sprint is trying to sell everyone. It's about not lying to your customers and tell them in two places they have unlimited roaming data in big very easy to read print, and say something else in very tiny print and very hard to find on the website saying you only have 300mb of roaming data.

I guess if I followed Sprints lead, I can assume that the amount listed on my bill is not really the amount I owe, so let's calculate...what percentage is 300mb of unlimited. I can use that percentage to calculate exactly what I owe.

Do something, file a complaint with the FCC, your state's attorney general, and the Better Business Bureau. Maybe, just maybe, Sprint might update their website and bills to report facts instead of fiction.
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Old 03-16-2012, 11:20 PM   #64
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It's not about the 300mb, it's about being deceptive, it's about not even attempting to help their customers keep track of the roaming data, it's about being too lazy to fix the website and the bills to report actual numbers instead of trying to live up to the whole "truly unlimited" hype Sprint is trying to sell everyone. It's about not lying to your customers and tell them in two places they have unlimited roaming data in big very easy to read print, and say something else in very tiny print and very hard to find on the website saying you only have 300mb of roaming data.

I guess if I followed Sprints lead, I can assume that the amount listed on my bill is not really the amount I owe, so let's calculate...what percentage is 300mb of unlimited. I can use that percentage to calculate exactly what I owe.

Do something, file a complaint with the FCC, your state's attorney general, and the Better Business Bureau. Maybe, just maybe, Sprint might update their website and bills to report facts instead of fiction.
Sprint has not been known to send a warning letter for one month of overages. They do it on a 2-3 month history of exceeding the limit.

With Sprint choosing that you can use no more than 49.9% of your minutes or data while roaming, up to a limit of 800 voice minutes or 300 MB, they can not easily put "800 minutes" or "300 MB" as a cap / limit online. If you only use 500 minutes a month, but 400 of those are roaming you are technically violating the T&C.

I agree that they should list the limits better, but they would likely argue from a legal standpoint that it is "unlimited" as they do not charge more if you go over, or shut you off at that limit. They can just choose that they no longer want your business, and the one sided contract claims to give them that right.
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Old 03-16-2012, 11:39 PM   #65
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Sprint has not been known to send a warning letter for one month of overages. They do it on a 2-3 month history of exceeding the limit.

With Sprint choosing that you can use no more than 49.9% of your minutes or data while roaming, up to a limit of 800 voice minutes or 300 MB, they can not easily put "800 minutes" or "300 MB" as a cap / limit online. If you only use 500 minutes a month, but 400 of those are roaming you are technically violating the T&C.

I agree that they should list the limits better, but they would likely argue from a legal standpoint that it is "unlimited" as they do not charge more if you go over, or shut you off at that limit. They can just choose that they no longer want your business, and the one sided contract claims to give them that right.
The letter telling me they are cutting off my service states "Because your overall usage continues to exceed off-network roaming limits which is in violation of your data plan, we regret to inform you that your wireless service will be terminated effective April 17, 2012" so they state in the letter that are hard limits and really, it's not 300mb, it's the "majority" of kilobytes and that it is not unlimited as they state on the website and on the bills.

They say they contacted me to give me the opportunity to change my usage habits to be in line with the terms of my plan...well, according to the bill I have unlimited 3G data roaming included in my plan. If they want to just shut down my service without stating the reason, that's one thing. I'd be mad about it, but that's their choice. It's when they state there are these limits according to the contract, yet they are the ones telling me I don't have limits according to what they tell me on their website and the bill they send me.
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Old 03-16-2012, 11:44 PM   #66
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The letter telling me they are cutting off my service states "Because your overall usage continues to exceed off-network roaming limits which is in violation of your data plan, we regret to inform you that your wireless service will be terminated effective April 17, 2012" so they state in the letter that are hard limits and really, it's not 300mb, it's the "majority" of kilobytes and that it is not unlimited as they state on the website and on the bills.

They say they contacted me to give me the opportunity to change my usage habits to be in line with the terms of my plan...well, according to the bill I have unlimited 3G data roaming included in my plan. If they want to just shut down my service without stating the reason, that's one thing. I'd be mad about it, but that's their choice. It's when they state there are these limits according to the contract, yet they are the ones telling me I don't have limits according to what they tell me on their website and the bill they send me.
The limits are clearly stated in the contract, as has been linked to in this thread. It is 800 minutes, 300 MB or a "majority of minutes / data used."

They obviously sent you a letter before, and perhaps it wold have been smart to have contacted them about it when you got the original letter. As of now, they will do nothing and you need to port out if you want to keep your number.
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Old 03-17-2012, 12:03 AM   #67
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The limits are clearly stated in the contract, as has been linked to in this thread. It is 800 minutes, 300 MB or a "majority of minutes / data used."

They obviously sent you a letter before, and perhaps it wold have been smart to have contacted them about it when you got the original letter. As of now, they will do nothing and you need to port out if you want to keep your number.
While I understand it is clearly stated in the contract, it is also clearly stated unlimited on more than one other piece of documentation. It's not up to the customer to have to decipher which is the "correct" piece of information. Sprint was fine with my going over for years without so much as a peep from them, then all the sudden it's not ok.

I did contact Sprint when they first said they had a problem all of the sudden about how I use my phone, and they wouldn't so anything then either. I asked why their website and bill state something opposite from the terms of service and not one single person can tell why it is. Not one person in chat, email, or on the phone in the more than a dozen conversations I've had about this subject. I have been disconnected, transferred, escalated, and I still do not have an answer as to why Sprint chooses to keep using the word "Unlimited" in areas where it is not unlimited. Nobody can explain why the need for deception, it's not like I'm a potential new customer that you have to WOW with all their "truly unlimited" service. I'm already here, I pay my bill every month for 8 phone lines and 1 data plan for a tablet. Tell me the truth and help me as a customer manage my account, report the data in mb, say I've used xx amount of mb out of my monthly xx amount of mb available.

I'm not arguing that I broke the "rules", I'm complaining that Sprint lies to it's customers on their website which they promote as the fast, easy, secure way to handle your account, and on the bill they send every month. They can and do show actual numbers for data plans for tablets, I know this because I have one, so why are the phones so different?

They may not have to answer my question as to why things are reported as the way they are, but hopefully they will to the FCC when answering my complaint and my state's attorney general when he asks the question.
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Old 03-17-2012, 02:23 AM   #68
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While I understand it is clearly stated in the contract, it is also clearly stated unlimited on more than one other piece of documentation. It's not up to the customer to have to decipher which is the "correct" piece of information. Sprint was fine with my going over for years without so much as a peep from them, then all the sudden it's not ok.

I did contact Sprint when they first said they had a problem all of the sudden about how I use my phone, and they wouldn't so anything then either. I asked why their website and bill state something opposite from the terms of service and not one single person can tell why it is. Not one person in chat, email, or on the phone in the more than a dozen conversations I've had about this subject. I have been disconnected, transferred, escalated, and I still do not have an answer as to why Sprint chooses to keep using the word "Unlimited" in areas where it is not unlimited. Nobody can explain why the need for deception, it's not like I'm a potential new customer that you have to WOW with all their "truly unlimited" service. I'm already here, I pay my bill every month for 8 phone lines and 1 data plan for a tablet. Tell me the truth and help me as a customer manage my account, report the data in mb, say I've used xx amount of mb out of my monthly xx amount of mb available.

I'm not arguing that I broke the "rules", I'm complaining that Sprint lies to it's customers on their website which they promote as the fast, easy, secure way to handle your account, and on the bill they send every month. They can and do show actual numbers for data plans for tablets, I know this because I have one, so why are the phones so different?

They may not have to answer my question as to why things are reported as the way they are, but hopefully they will to the FCC when answering my complaint and my state's attorney general when he asks the question.
I assume they are terminating the one line that has been going over?

You may have a case in small claims court against Sprint. As you pointed out, the wording used for advertising and on the "usage" page states unlimited. A judge may aware you damages in the amount it will cost you to buy a device on Verizon and the difference in plan pricing with Sprint. That would likely be the extent of your personal legal damages.

The FCC will likely "punt" your complaints to another agency. It may be the FTC, or your state attorneys general office. Neither are likely to get you any personal damages, just some payment to them for investigating the case and assisting in its resolution.

Try small claims court though. You can just print up the documents that Sprint uses and show how it is deceptive and ask the judge for damages for actual money lost and possibly for some "mental anguish" type of a claim you may try and bring over having to deal with the issue, find a new carrier, etc.
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Old 03-17-2012, 10:19 AM   #69
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'unlimited' as seen in Sprint's billing system simply means that there is no rate charge nor hard coded limits. The rules and algorithm coding for roaming dont live in the billing system, but in a separate auditing system. The website is exposing you to the raw internal coding of programming and billing states and specs whose names dont necessarily precisely capture or correspond to their English meaning. It is common for programmers to use names and labels whose internal meaning isnt exactly identical to the English meaning. You are right that it is misleading to have such words in the billing system exposed to the customer and its not the only example of misleading names for states and parameters in the billing system.

OTOH it is a bit disengenous to claim that because of this, you the customer, are blameless and not responsible. 1) you saw it stated elsewhere, and it is plenty clear there are rules for using roaming. 2) you cannot possibly have believed that roaming on Verizon would truly be unlimited. That is illogical from a financial pov. I dont believe you are that naive. 3) you got a clear letter of warning. Between these three factor, it is reasonable to expect that you should have contacted Sprint and sought clarification, instead of just trying to hide behind what their billing system says.
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Old 03-17-2012, 12:28 PM   #70
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@Dan They are not just closing the one line or even two lines that go over, they closing the entire account. The letter does not specify which lines are being closed, it just says the account, so I verified with Sprint and it is going to be all 9 devices. Even the data plan which has never gone over because the tab is set not to roam. The phones, however, cannot be set to not roam because then no email could be received and some of us need email for work and to access some systems online. Also, I don't want to sue them for personal damages or some class action suit, I just want them to cover the cost of the transition to another wireless provider with relatively the same plan and level of phones. I don't want to go from the Evo 3D to some basic less performing phone because of cost to get the whole account set up.

@monkeyboy I would agree with you if I didn't know different. The data plan I have for my tab lists as

Sprint 3G Data Roaming
Used

0KB / 102,400 KB Included
0.0%
Remaining
102,400KB

So, it's just as easy to put the same programming toward the phone lines as they do for the tablet.

And regarding what I believe or don't believe about roaming on Verizon, well, how am I supposed to know what contract or agreement Sprint has with Verizon regarding the use of their towers and their network? I've never seen the contract between the two, and I've been tagging Verizon towers for years and never, not once, has Sprint said a word about my usage...until now. So, that would lead me believe everything was ok. When I did contact Sprint and ask why it's just now becoming an issue, I was told that "there are several reasons why that could happen, the most common is that cell phone provider whose towers you are using may have raised their rates with Sprint". So, Sprint gets me comfortable with the way our phones are used, and when they are having financial issues and want to save money, it now becomes a problem.

It's not like I'm a new Sprint customer, there is a long standing allowance (6+ years) of letting us go over our data roaming, take that with the website usage showing we have unlimited roaming data, and my bill saying that unlimited roaming data is included in the plan, those are my 3 factors.

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Old 03-17-2012, 01:29 PM   #71
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@Dan They are not just closing the one line or even two lines that go over, they closing the entire account. The letter does not specify which lines are being closed, it just says the account, so I verified with Sprint and it is going to be all 9 devices. Even the data plan which has never gone over because the tab is set not to roam. The phones, however, cannot be set to not roam because then no email could be received and some of us need email for work and to access some systems online. Also, I don't want to sue them for personal damages or some class action suit, I just want them to cover the cost of the transition to another wireless provider with relatively the same plan and level of phones. I don't want to go from the Evo 3D to some basic less performing phone because of cost to get the whole account set up.
Sprint will not pay you, unless you legally compel them to, any costs you will have for switching to another carrier. Considering they are terminating all 9 lines they must have determined that they do not value your business, for whatever reason. In most cases, Sprint would terminate one line that was going over, leaving the other lines still bound by their service agreements.

Your best action is small claims court. It is set up to have regular people state their case without a lawyer, and the judge will weigh the merits of your case against the lawyer or management person Sprint will send. You could easily show the judge that you had invested thousands of dollars in Sprint branded devices, devices that are worthless to you when you switch carriers. The fact that they are choosing to terminate all lines of service seems a bit odd to say the least, so I would get that in writing somehow from a Sprint rep's corporate email account.

Look at what it will cost you to switch to Verizon or AT&T for all 9 lines. Device purchase costs, activation fee's, and possible increased monthly costs. Ask the judge to aware you a judgement for all of those increased expenses for the next 24 months, as you practically have to agree to that term of service.

You may not get all of that, but Sprint will offer you nothing. They will tell you that they are already waiving any ETF's, and that you should be happy with that.
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Old 03-17-2012, 01:40 PM   #72
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Sprint will not pay you, unless you legally compel them to, any costs you will have for switching to another carrier. Considering they are terminating all 9 lines they must have determined that they do not value your business, for whatever reason. In most cases, Sprint would terminate one line that was going over, leaving the other lines still bound by their service agreements.

Your best action is small claims court. It is set up to have regular people state their case without a lawyer, and the judge will weigh the merits of your case against the lawyer or management person Sprint will send. You could easily show the judge that you had invested thousands of dollars in Sprint branded devices, devices that are worthless to you when you switch carriers. The fact that they are choosing to terminate all lines of service seems a bit odd to say the least, so I would get that in writing somehow from a Sprint rep's corporate email account.

Look at what it will cost you to switch to Verizon or AT&T for all 9 lines. Device purchase costs, activation fee's, and possible increased monthly costs. Ask the judge to aware you a judgement for all of those increased expenses for the next 24 months, as you practically have to agree to that term of service.

You may not get all of that, but Sprint will offer you nothing. They will tell you that they are already waiving any ETF's, and that you should be happy with that.
Thank you for the advice. I'm in the process of trying to get as much documentation as possible from my account page online, my bills, and speaking with Sprint through email and chat since it can be documented.

Like I told Sprint, I'm not looking for a million dollar claim or multi-million dollars class action suit, I just want them to take responsibility for the information they provide to their customers and if they are going to post one thing on my account that differs from the TOS, then they should pay for the switch.
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Old 03-17-2012, 05:00 PM   #73
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I think the biggest issue is like cmcollins001 has stated. The account website shows unlimited roaming. This is what people see all the time when they log in and pay their bill or check minutes etc. The only thing that makes mention to the 300Mb's/or majority use, is the T&C which the majority only sees once when they sign the contract. That set up with the advertised unlimited simply everything plan really makes it sound confusing. How hard is it to change the website to show XXX out of 300MB's roaming when you check on it? Especially if the roaming costs Sprint so much money they should do what they can to help keep people informed of this roaming use.

And wow, they must really hate you dropping all 9 lines like that. At first I was thinking "what are you complaining about. You get away from Sprint ETF free." But I see that it will be kind of costly for you with all those lines and devices.

You should do as Dan has recommended. Also try to sale your devices you currently have to help ease the transition. But get receipts of the transactions for the amounts because the court will want to subtract that amount from the judgement you will be trying to get awarded to you.

What provider are you thinking of switching to? Does another provider have a special on phones right now that might help you with the upfront phone cost?
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Old 03-17-2012, 05:08 PM   #74
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I think the biggest issue is like cmcollins001 has stated. The account website shows unlimited roaming. This is what people see all the time when they log in and pay their bill or check minutes etc. The only thing that makes mention to the 300Mb's/or majority use, is the T&C which the majority only sees once when they sign the contract. That set up with the advertised unlimited simply everything plan really makes it sound confusing. How hard is it to change the website to show XXX out of 300MB's roaming when you check on it? Especially if the roaming costs Sprint so much money they should do what they can to help keep people informed of this roaming use.

And wow, they must really hate you dropping all 9 lines like that. At first I was thinking "what are you complaining about. You get away from Sprint ETF free." But I see that it will be kind of costly for you with all those lines and devices.

You should do as Dan has recommended. Also try to sale your devices you currently have to help ease the transition. But get receipts of the transactions for the amounts because the court will want to subtract that amount from the judgement you will be trying to get awarded to you.

What provider are you thinking of switching to? Does another provider have a special on phones right now that might help you with the upfront phone cost?
Verizon would be the best choice considering the coverage in my area. I talked with a rep at one of the stores about what would be good for me. While I could sell my phones to them, and I have some people interested in a couple of my phones so I can get more money from them then I would from a buyback program. It's going to cost quite a bit to get started and right now I'm researching too see what all of my options are. There are some deals on phones, and a couple of them would be close to what I'm used to with my phone and a couple of my other phones.
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Old 03-17-2012, 09:54 PM   #75
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Verizon would be the best choice considering the coverage in my area. I talked with a rep at one of the stores about what would be good for me. While I could sell my phones to them, and I have some people interested in a couple of my phones so I can get more money from them then I would from a buyback program. It's going to cost quite a bit to get started and right now I'm researching too see what all of my options are. There are some deals on phones, and a couple of them would be close to what I'm used to with my phone and a couple of my other phones.
Well it sucks that Sprint would just drop a loyal customer. But Verizon can be really good network wise. And if they are only a few dollars more a month I would consider it well worth it.

Yeah you have to buy new phones. But you will also have the newest phones to choose from. You'd be surprised how much you can sell your phones for on craigslist. I left Sprint paying ETF fees and was able to make the money back selling my phones. If you dont need unlimited data then Verizon may be a good fit for you. And its Sprints lose anyways. If you continue using alot of roaming than it might cost SPrint more money than your account is worth. But if just one or two of your phones was roaming only slightly, then overall Sprint will be loosing out from your business. Such a shame.
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